Comments on: Urban Hiking Beijing: The Forbidden City

By: 花崗齋之愚公

花崗齋之愚公 — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:11:00 +0000

x@y,

Doesn’t happen to me very much. First, I’m not the most cuddly-looking laowai. Second, since I have brown hair and brown eyes, most Chinese don’t feel I look authentically foreign enough for novelty pictures. They do however feel I look foreign enough to charge me triple at the veg market though. Go figure.

By: 花崗齋之愚公

花崗齋之愚公 — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:08:00 +0000

Tom,

Haven’t read it yet, but I’m looking forward to doing so.

By: x@y

x@y — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:01:00 +0000

I would expect one of your points to be ‘Having my photo taken with random strangers’.
When I have been to the F C I have been regularly asked by locals (from out of town I’d say) if they can take my photo with their wives. Others just try to get and angle on the wife so that I am in the background while I’m pondered which direction to head to next.

By: Tom - Daai Tou Laam

Tom - Daai Tou Laam — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 11:15:00 +0000

Have you looked at Aldrich's book? The Search for a Vanishing Beijing

If not, it seemed like a travel/historical narrative that might appeal to a historian.

By: 花崗齋之愚公

花崗齋之愚公 — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 08:37:00 +0000

Addendum to Anonymous,

I figure you knew this already…but I was being tongue-in-cheek. I didn’t hit anybody. You probably guessed that, but just in case…

By: 花崗齋之愚公

花崗齋之愚公 — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 08:00:00 +0000

Dear Anonymous,

Good question and one that comes up frequently here. The short answer is that recent research both inside and outside the PRC using Manchu language sources has demonstrated that the "sinicization" of the Qing was not nearly as complete as many once thought. The Qing was a multi-ethnic empire of which the Han were but one part. Early-20th century Han chauvanists played up the Sincization angle based more on the needs of state building and nationalism rather than historical research and it's a cherished myth--especially among the Han ethnicity--that lingers to this day.

The ROC and later the PRC claimed the borders of the Qing (and anyone living inside those borders whether they liked it or not) as China and redefined anyone living in those borders as "Chinese."

Part of this difference is how a nation-state defines itself as opposed to how an empire does so.

I have a link in the post to the Elliot book, it's a great place to start on this subject.

If you're interested, we've visited this general topic many times in the past. Feel free to check through the archives.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:24:00 +0000

Regarding your #8, I am Chinese but not too familiar with Chinese history. I am hoping for some further elaboration from you befor your hitting that lady on the forehead. It seems to me that, yes, the Manchus weren’t Chinese at the time and they took over the ruling of China. However I must say I can see why this lady would claim that the Qing is a Chinese dynasty now, given how sinicized they are. Perhaps it’s merely a difference in perspective? Either way, love to hear some more from you on the matter.