Comments on: Yue Fei, Qin Gui, and Patriotism in Song China http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china A Qing historian reads the newspaper... Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:35:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Frog in a Well - The Korea History Group Blog http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/comment-page-1/#comment-1333 Frog in a Well - The Korea History Group Blog Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:00:48 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/#comment-1333 [...] instructions” of the 6th century scholar-official Yan Zhitui, and the role of Yue Fei and Qin Gui and patriotism in the Song dynasty and historiography of the period. Among his “This Date in History” postings we find a [...] [...] instructions” of the 6th century scholar-official Yan Zhitui, and the role of Yue Fei and Qin Gui and patriotism in the Song dynasty and historiography of the period. Among his “This Date in History” postings we find a [...]

]]> By: Jeremiah http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/comment-page-1/#comment-1174 Jeremiah Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:57:36 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/#comment-1174 Chris, I've not followed Fijian politics very closely, and in fact until I just did a quick google search I was not unconvinced you hadn't invented some of those names or pulled them off of a Star Wars fan-fiction site. But afte reading through the strange and twisted saga of military coups in Fiji, I can see you are quite right. The history of generals forcing their way into power is not a happy one, in Fiji or really anywhere. Chris,

I’ve not followed Fijian politics very closely, and in fact until I just did a quick google search I was not unconvinced you hadn’t invented some of those names or pulled them off of a Star Wars fan-fiction site.

But afte reading through the strange and twisted saga of military coups in Fiji, I can see you are quite right. The history of generals forcing their way into power is not a happy one, in Fiji or really anywhere.

]]> By: chriswaugh_bj http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/comment-page-1/#comment-1165 chriswaugh_bj Mon, 28 Jan 2008 04:40:32 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/#comment-1165 Could either of you two, Wu Ming or Jeremiah, please do the South Pacific a favour and educate the Fijian military, and in particular Voreqe Bainimarama and anybody else showing even the slightest inclination to follow, his, Sitiveni Rabuka's or George Speight's examples about what can happen to Generals who get a bit uppity? And in particular the consequences for future generals once the civilian side gets a bit sick and tired of uppity generals intervening where they're not welcome? Could either of you two, Wu Ming or Jeremiah, please do the South Pacific a favour and educate the Fijian military, and in particular Voreqe Bainimarama and anybody else showing even the slightest inclination to follow, his, Sitiveni Rabuka’s or George Speight’s examples about what can happen to Generals who get a bit uppity? And in particular the consequences for future generals once the civilian side gets a bit sick and tired of uppity generals intervening where they’re not welcome?

]]> By: Jeremiah http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/comment-page-1/#comment-1156 Jeremiah Sun, 27 Jan 2008 23:28:14 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/#comment-1156 Wu Ming, Always a pleasure to have your perspective as a true historian of the Song. I completely agree that Yue Fei's position as a charismatic general fueled a great deal of the hostility to him from Gaozong and Qin Gui. James Liu's article makes that quite clear. Excellent point. Wu Ming,

Always a pleasure to have your perspective as a true historian of the Song.

I completely agree that Yue Fei’s position as a charismatic general fueled a great deal of the hostility to him from Gaozong and Qin Gui. James Liu’s article makes that quite clear.

Excellent point.

]]> By: wu ming http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/comment-page-1/#comment-1151 wu ming Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:10:41 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/2008/01/27/yue-fei-qin-hui-and-patriotism-in-song-china/#comment-1151 another angle to understanding the reason why the gaozong court reined yue fei in can be found by looking at how well charismatic generals acting independently worked out for the tang dynasty (or, for that matter, for imperial japan in the 30s or the truman administration during the korean war). one of the most basic principles of the song ruling house, for better or worse, was imperial control of the government, and civil control of the workings of said government. given that the ruling house had come to power in a palace coup, it's not surprising that both gaozong and qin kui were edgy about yue fei. additionlly, all throughout the southern song, the state had to deal with song generals defecting to the jin and taking their armies with them, often setting themselves up as border warlords switching sides with abandon. it would not have been unreasonable to suspect that yue could have also set up a rival state in the huaibei area, and threatened the survival of the song state far more than the jurchen jin could have, on ideological grounds alone. another angle to understanding the reason why the gaozong court reined yue fei in can be found by looking at how well charismatic generals acting independently worked out for the tang dynasty (or, for that matter, for imperial japan in the 30s or the truman administration during the korean war).

one of the most basic principles of the song ruling house, for better or worse, was imperial control of the government, and civil control of the workings of said government. given that the ruling house had come to power in a palace coup, it’s not surprising that both gaozong and qin kui were edgy about yue fei.

additionlly, all throughout the southern song, the state had to deal with song generals defecting to the jin and taking their armies with them, often setting themselves up as border warlords switching sides with abandon. it would not have been unreasonable to suspect that yue could have also set up a rival state in the huaibei area, and threatened the survival of the song state far more than the jurchen jin could have, on ideological grounds alone.

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