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	<title>Comments on: The Historical Record for December 24: The Christmas Eve Rape of Student Shen</title>
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	<link>http://granitestudio.org/2008/12/24/the-historical-record-for-december-24-the-christmas-eve-rape-of-student-shen/</link>
	<description>A Qing historian reads the newspaper...</description>
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		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2008/12/24/the-historical-record-for-december-24-the-christmas-eve-rape-of-student-shen/comment-page-1/#comment-9384</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 02:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=600#comment-9384</guid>
		<description>&quot;To some extent I alluded to this situation above.&quot;

Yes, you did, which is what set me off ;)

&quot;...but by the same token I don’t think it’s possible to overreact to a rape/abduction.&quot;

I agree entirely. 

My point, before I got slightly sidetracked, was that the level of outrage at these crimes should be independent of the race, nationality, religion, or economic status of the perpetrators.

In reality such a society doesn&#039;t exist, but China is lagging a bit further behind the curve than it ought to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To some extent I alluded to this situation above.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, you did, which is what set me off <img src='http://granitestudio.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;but by the same token I don’t think it’s possible to overreact to a rape/abduction.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree entirely. </p>
<p>My point, before I got slightly sidetracked, was that the level of outrage at these crimes should be independent of the race, nationality, religion, or economic status of the perpetrators.</p>
<p>In reality such a society doesn&#8217;t exist, but China is lagging a bit further behind the curve than it ought to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Meyer</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2008/12/24/the-historical-record-for-december-24-the-christmas-eve-rape-of-student-shen/comment-page-1/#comment-9382</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Meyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 01:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=600#comment-9382</guid>
		<description>Greetings - Coincidentally, I just read an account of this crime and trial in Ronald H. Spector&#039;s IN THE RUINS OF EMPIRE: THE JAPANESE SURRENDER AND THE BATTLE FOR POSTWAR ASIA, which does a very nice job summarizing the stationing of Marines throughout China after Japan&#039;s surrender and Russia&#039;s entry into Manchukuo. Recommended reading for those interested in war crimes, trials and broken truces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings &#8211; Coincidentally, I just read an account of this crime and trial in Ronald H. Spector&#8217;s IN THE RUINS OF EMPIRE: THE JAPANESE SURRENDER AND THE BATTLE FOR POSTWAR ASIA, which does a very nice job summarizing the stationing of Marines throughout China after Japan&#8217;s surrender and Russia&#8217;s entry into Manchukuo. Recommended reading for those interested in war crimes, trials and broken truces.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremiah</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2008/12/24/the-historical-record-for-december-24-the-christmas-eve-rape-of-student-shen/comment-page-1/#comment-9358</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=600#comment-9358</guid>
		<description>Stuart,

I understand where you&#039;re coming from.  YJ and I occasionally run into the same  thing.  The fact that she is a &quot;good girl&quot; (PKU grad, etc.) tends to flumox the less worldly observers who tend to assume that &quot;only peasants&quot; would date a foreigner...some things never change.

To some extent I alluded to this situation above.

That said, I might separate the situation surrounding this case,  or any case of sexual violence, from issues of cross-national dating/marriage.  I agree that there were specific circumstances (historical, political, military) which made Student Shen such a cause célèbre, but by the same token I don&#039;t think it&#039;s possible to overreact to a rape/abduction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart,</p>
<p>I understand where you&#8217;re coming from.  YJ and I occasionally run into the same  thing.  The fact that she is a &#8220;good girl&#8221; (PKU grad, etc.) tends to flumox the less worldly observers who tend to assume that &#8220;only peasants&#8221; would date a foreigner&#8230;some things never change.</p>
<p>To some extent I alluded to this situation above.</p>
<p>That said, I might separate the situation surrounding this case,  or any case of sexual violence, from issues of cross-national dating/marriage.  I agree that there were specific circumstances (historical, political, military) which made Student Shen such a cause célèbre, but by the same token I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s possible to overreact to a rape/abduction.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidofSanGabriel</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2008/12/24/the-historical-record-for-december-24-the-christmas-eve-rape-of-student-shen/comment-page-1/#comment-9322</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidofSanGabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 03:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=600#comment-9322</guid>
		<description>Yep. You have my sympathy and best wishes, Stuart. When I was in Beijing, my Chinese born buddy saw a young Chinese woman with a foreigner and said, &quot;She&#039;s a whore, they&#039;re all whores.&quot;  I know the stares. I get them all the time from Chinese here in San Gabriel, California, when I go out for lunch with my Chinese boss (nice lady, happily married to a Chinese guy).

Oh yeah, and rape goes with war. You train a bunch of 18-year-olds to kill and be prepared to die at any time then are shocked when they commit the occasional atrocity? Yes, I&#039;m &quot;shocked, SHOCKED&quot;! I say, in my best Claude Rains voice...

The kind of stuff that goes on in every war. They just don&#039;t talk about it on the TV. Might confuse the good patriotic citizens.

&quot;The corresponding adjustment in China is taking rather too long, something I attribute to deep-rooted feelings of a racist nature that the Chinese government does little to assuage.&quot;

Assuage? I would suggest the Chinese government would more likely inflame such feelings. After all, no one in China believes in Communism anymore, but there&#039;s always the SACRED MOTHERLAND which needs to be loved and protected (just like &quot;our&quot; fair Chinese maidens).

Best of luck to you and your wife, and Happy Holidays to you too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep. You have my sympathy and best wishes, Stuart. When I was in Beijing, my Chinese born buddy saw a young Chinese woman with a foreigner and said, &#8220;She&#8217;s a whore, they&#8217;re all whores.&#8221;  I know the stares. I get them all the time from Chinese here in San Gabriel, California, when I go out for lunch with my Chinese boss (nice lady, happily married to a Chinese guy).</p>
<p>Oh yeah, and rape goes with war. You train a bunch of 18-year-olds to kill and be prepared to die at any time then are shocked when they commit the occasional atrocity? Yes, I&#8217;m &#8220;shocked, SHOCKED&#8221;! I say, in my best Claude Rains voice&#8230;</p>
<p>The kind of stuff that goes on in every war. They just don&#8217;t talk about it on the TV. Might confuse the good patriotic citizens.</p>
<p>&#8220;The corresponding adjustment in China is taking rather too long, something I attribute to deep-rooted feelings of a racist nature that the Chinese government does little to assuage.&#8221;</p>
<p>Assuage? I would suggest the Chinese government would more likely inflame such feelings. After all, no one in China believes in Communism anymore, but there&#8217;s always the SACRED MOTHERLAND which needs to be loved and protected (just like &#8220;our&#8221; fair Chinese maidens).</p>
<p>Best of luck to you and your wife, and Happy Holidays to you too!</p>
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		<title>By: stuart</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2008/12/24/the-historical-record-for-december-24-the-christmas-eve-rape-of-student-shen/comment-page-1/#comment-9319</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 02:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=600#comment-9319</guid>
		<description>Interesting piece, Jeremiah.

I think what is still true today, more so I believe in China than elsewhere, is that a crime (be it sexually motivated or otherwise) where the assailant is non-Chinese brings to the forefront the spectre of China as the world&#039;s victim. And nothing is likely to inflame tensions more than when that crime is rape.

China, more than any other country I&#039;ve visited (I haven&#039;t been Saudi Arabia, for example), seems to adopt an attitude of protection towards its women that goes beyond chivalry. I think it has more to do with a sense of ownership. Of course there are historical or cultural reasons for this, but the lingering racism inherent in such attitudes reflects one area at least where China is still struggling to open up. 

Yes, most other countries would also display greater shock and anger towards foreign rapists than rapists from their own backyard; but not to the same degree, I suggest. 

If such an incident with foreigners were to happen in China today (whether perpetrated by soldiers, engineers, students, or teachers), I&#039;m certain that the media backlash, nationalistic fury, and violent demonstrations would make the 1946 reactions seem like a ripple on a pond.

I wouldn&#039;t care to put a figure on the number of rapes that take place in China every day, but I&#039;m sure if such a number were available it would make very sad reading. However, none would come close to inspiring the kind of outrage I described above. Why is this?

As a foreigner living and working here with a Chinese wife, I have run into resentment, indignation, and insults in every part of China we have visited together. When you engage with people on a personal level (e.g. talking to people while sharing a train compartment, eating in a restaurant, chatting to neighbours) ill feelings subside and acceptance is gained. But there remains an attitude on the street that treats me like the defiler of China&#039;s heritage and my wife as a traitor to the Motherland. That attitude has often been lent a voice.

And no, I&#039;m not paranoid.

I accept that China has had less time to get used to the idea of interracial relationships than the west, and that Britain too, for example, underwent a period of transition while it adjusted its attitudes towards mixed race relationships. 

The corresponding adjustment in China is taking rather too long, something I attribute to deep-rooted feelings of a racist nature that the Chinese government does little to assuage.

Healthy and happy Xmas + 2009 to you and yours, btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting piece, Jeremiah.</p>
<p>I think what is still true today, more so I believe in China than elsewhere, is that a crime (be it sexually motivated or otherwise) where the assailant is non-Chinese brings to the forefront the spectre of China as the world&#8217;s victim. And nothing is likely to inflame tensions more than when that crime is rape.</p>
<p>China, more than any other country I&#8217;ve visited (I haven&#8217;t been Saudi Arabia, for example), seems to adopt an attitude of protection towards its women that goes beyond chivalry. I think it has more to do with a sense of ownership. Of course there are historical or cultural reasons for this, but the lingering racism inherent in such attitudes reflects one area at least where China is still struggling to open up. </p>
<p>Yes, most other countries would also display greater shock and anger towards foreign rapists than rapists from their own backyard; but not to the same degree, I suggest. </p>
<p>If such an incident with foreigners were to happen in China today (whether perpetrated by soldiers, engineers, students, or teachers), I&#8217;m certain that the media backlash, nationalistic fury, and violent demonstrations would make the 1946 reactions seem like a ripple on a pond.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t care to put a figure on the number of rapes that take place in China every day, but I&#8217;m sure if such a number were available it would make very sad reading. However, none would come close to inspiring the kind of outrage I described above. Why is this?</p>
<p>As a foreigner living and working here with a Chinese wife, I have run into resentment, indignation, and insults in every part of China we have visited together. When you engage with people on a personal level (e.g. talking to people while sharing a train compartment, eating in a restaurant, chatting to neighbours) ill feelings subside and acceptance is gained. But there remains an attitude on the street that treats me like the defiler of China&#8217;s heritage and my wife as a traitor to the Motherland. That attitude has often been lent a voice.</p>
<p>And no, I&#8217;m not paranoid.</p>
<p>I accept that China has had less time to get used to the idea of interracial relationships than the west, and that Britain too, for example, underwent a period of transition while it adjusted its attitudes towards mixed race relationships. </p>
<p>The corresponding adjustment in China is taking rather too long, something I attribute to deep-rooted feelings of a racist nature that the Chinese government does little to assuage.</p>
<p>Healthy and happy Xmas + 2009 to you and yours, btw.</p>
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