Comments on: Cai Yuanpei and Charter 08 http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/11/cai-yuanpei-and-charter-08/ A Qing historian reads the newspaper... Sat, 02 Jul 2011 03:31:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jeremiah Jenne http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/11/cai-yuanpei-and-charter-08/comment-page-1/#comment-13072 Jeremiah Jenne Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:15:20 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/?p=684#comment-13072 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Happy Birthday, Cai Yuanpei (Born 1868). From last January: http://tinyurl.com/7seyux</span></span> Happy Birthday, Cai Yuanpei (Born 1868). From last January: http://tinyurl.com/7seyux

]]> By: Au pays du milieu : découvrir la Chine » Blog Archive » Charte 08 http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/11/cai-yuanpei-and-charter-08/comment-page-1/#comment-11292 Au pays du milieu : découvrir la Chine » Blog Archive » Charte 08 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:46:27 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/?p=684#comment-11292 [...] Jeremiah Jenne ne croit pas que la charte aura un impact à court terme.  Selon lui, il ne faut cependant pas mettre en doute la valeur de la charte simplement parce qu’elle est le produit d’une seule classe (l’élite intellectuelle). Il rappelle que les idées de plusieurs personnages chinois importants n’ont pas été populaires à leurs débuts. [...] [...] Jeremiah Jenne ne croit pas que la charte aura un impact à court terme.  Selon lui, il ne faut cependant pas mettre en doute la valeur de la charte simplement parce qu’elle est le produit d’une seule classe (l’élite intellectuelle). Il rappelle que les idées de plusieurs personnages chinois importants n’ont pas été populaires à leurs débuts. [...]

]]> By: Jeremiah Jenne http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/11/cai-yuanpei-and-charter-08/comment-page-1/#comment-13073 Jeremiah Jenne Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:13:56 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/?p=684#comment-13073 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Cai Yuanpei and Charter 08: Today is the birthday of Cai Yuanpei (1868-1940).  A classically-trained scholar who.. http://tinyurl.com/7seyux</span></span> Cai Yuanpei and Charter 08: Today is the birthday of Cai Yuanpei (1868-1940).  A classically-trained scholar who.. http://tinyurl.com/7seyux

]]> By: Jeremiah http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/11/cai-yuanpei-and-charter-08/comment-page-1/#comment-10444 Jeremiah Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:49:41 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/?p=684#comment-10444 I'm not dismissing your ideas because you are emotional, I'm just saying that I'm not as hot and bothered by this as you are. To whit: You've spent the last four or five mornings commenting on a history teacher's blog regarding a three-week old post. That's bordering on obsessive. You don't like liberalism, that's fine. It must be hard living in the UK under those circumstances. Fortunately in the UK, bashing the dominant ideology is not illegal, otherwise you would be committing a crime. I think authorities should make public dissent legal. Doesn't mean I'm calling for democracy, only allowing people to speak. For you see, and this will be the last word on the subject because I have two courses to get prepare before the semester starts tomorrow, I believe that human beings everywhere have the potential to be intelligent, informed, aware, and active members of their community; that they have a right and a duty to read books, discuss issues, and question authority. It's why I became an educator. It's why Cai Yuanpei did as well. (See, I did it again.) And I believe that all humans (as there is far more that we hold in common than divides us, despite what neo-nationalists would have you believe) possess these things, not just those who were born in the USA or have the privilege to live in the UK. Thanks for a fascinating conversation on this subject, I wish you all the best on the new blog. A suggestion, if I may, is to get your own domain name/server so that it can read in the PRC. Cheers, Jeremiah I’m not dismissing your ideas because you are emotional, I’m just saying that I’m not as hot and bothered by this as you are. To whit: You’ve spent the last four or five mornings commenting on a history teacher’s blog regarding a three-week old post. That’s bordering on obsessive.

You don’t like liberalism, that’s fine. It must be hard living in the UK under those circumstances. Fortunately in the UK, bashing the dominant ideology is not illegal, otherwise you would be committing a crime.

I think authorities should make public dissent legal. Doesn’t mean I’m calling for democracy, only allowing people to speak.

For you see, and this will be the last word on the subject because I have two courses to get prepare before the semester starts tomorrow, I believe that human beings everywhere have the potential to be intelligent, informed, aware, and active members of their community; that they have a right and a duty to read books, discuss issues, and question authority. It’s why I became an educator. It’s why Cai Yuanpei did as well. (See, I did it again.) And I believe that all humans (as there is far more that we hold in common than divides us, despite what neo-nationalists would have you believe) possess these things, not just those who were born in the USA or have the privilege to live in the UK.

Thanks for a fascinating conversation on this subject, I wish you all the best on the new blog. A suggestion, if I may, is to get your own domain name/server so that it can read in the PRC.

Cheers,

Jeremiah

]]> By: TFOCT http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/11/cai-yuanpei-and-charter-08/comment-page-1/#comment-10441 TFOCT Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:07:32 +0000 http://granitestudio.org/?p=684#comment-10441 Jeremiah, A few quick corrections: 1. My position: not forgetting/ignoring Liberalism's deficiencies. Is not ideological. How this might be considered so reveals yours. 2. Speaking on behalf of Cai Yuanpei (and namechecking him whenever convenient) is an unfortunate projection of your ideological beliefs. He did not have the luxury of witnessing Liberalism and its promises crash and burn (as did bastion communism) in his lifetime. 3. There is nothing "strawman" about discussing the merits/failings of democracy or any other system of governance. Why must you think this so, is it something you do not wish to discuss? 4. I am passionate about ideas, but I do not believe it is grounds for dismissal qua "emotional." 5. Public dissent is illegal in China. Or, did you mean the authorities should have made an exception when it comes to Charter 08 or the motives of Liu Xiaobo? Thank you for your thoughts. Jeremiah,

A few quick corrections:

1. My position: not forgetting/ignoring Liberalism’s deficiencies. Is not ideological. How this might be considered so reveals yours.

2. Speaking on behalf of Cai Yuanpei (and namechecking him whenever convenient) is an unfortunate projection of your ideological beliefs. He did not have the luxury of witnessing Liberalism and its promises crash and burn (as did bastion communism) in his lifetime.

3. There is nothing “strawman” about discussing the merits/failings of democracy or any other system of governance. Why must you think this so, is it something you do not wish to discuss?

4. I am passionate about ideas, but I do not believe it is grounds for dismissal qua “emotional.”

5. Public dissent is illegal in China. Or, did you mean the authorities should have made an exception when it comes to Charter 08 or the motives of Liu Xiaobo?

Thank you for your thoughts.

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