Rightly or wrongly, I think you are wasting your money on things like the National Arts Collection Fund.

Therefore, I am taking your money in my possession, by force if necessary, so that we could have this wealth better preserved.

For your info, I’m auctioning the nicely kept bills and coins soon, just in case you want your money back.

I’m a little unfair as Elgin bought those marbles – and surely from a Greek. “Pillage” is a little harsh.

Interestingly the Dunhuang art and buddhas were bought too mostly from one particular monk who spent the proceeds damaging much of what remained in the name of restoration. The Brits bought the cream followed by the French and others and then finally the Americans got in on what was left. To make matters worse much of the American haul sunk while being shipped back to the US.

So a typical archeological fumble as I now understand it.

Happy new year!

Opinions on this tend to divide sharply depending on whether your country was among the looters or the looted. You don’t even have to be a developing country to fall on the other side of the argument — the Italians and Greeks being the prime examples.

Certainly any museum that helped to preserve an artifact should get some kind of continuing benefit, like sharing in the proceeds of any touring exhibitions. But it’s not as though the country of origin had lost all rights in the artifact just because they wouldn’t have treated it with respect in the interim. What matters is how it would be treated TODAY.

It’s not unlike the argument against colonialism: Perhaps there would have been a bloody religious war if we hadn’t stepped in and taken over the country. Does that mean that they don’t get to achieve self-government at some point in the future when they’re better-equipped? More to the point, when we grant independence to the colony, are we then entitled to take all the artifacts with us, because they would’ve gotten destroyed in the religious war that we prevented? Possession is nine-tenths ownership, but you can see how the argument falls on the other side.

http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/articles.php?searchterm=014_chineseAttitude.inc&issue=014

Absolutely. I remember that many Chinese commenters at the time struggled to contain their glee that the Buddha at Leshan was now the largest in the world.

Btw, I’m impressed with He Shuzhong’s comment. I’m not sure he holds a majority opinion in China, though.

Additional to the point, “These objects were looted by the Chinese themselves as much as the Westerners.” is more importantly of course, would these items have survived China’s recent turbulent cultural history in situ? Frankly not much does and as the Beijing Cultural Heritage Protection Center says lets us focus on what remains! I have no doubt that beautiful and important items and buildings are being destroyed or removed daily… as I write! So does it all only boil down to what is considered “valuable” or is it that devil ‘loss of face’, to pursue an expensive court case over two bronzes in France?

Visiting Dunhuang painted caves recently you realise that the damage is done AND wonder that if the works had not been sold from the caves would ANY of it have survived unscathed. The myriad of small deliberate chips and scratches on almost all the caves made me very sad. They always go for gouging the eyes and chipping off the hands and fingers. Wall upon wall of deliberate destruction.

In our rat race while these things have a monetary value they are to an extent protected – out in the field they are clearly not.

I think that artefacts are international and I increasingly sway towards the crude notion of whichever nation can buy it, gets it. Terrible and controversial I know, but you know I have the feeling that these things come around. This idea does also rely on people getting together and deciding to buy items back. I am a life member of the National Arts Collection Fund in the UK. They spend years deciding which art works are most important to the nation and then fund raising to bid at auction. A couple of times a year they will manage to keep what they consider a key work in a UK museum. They are almost always bidding against American’s as you guys are so wealthy and have a keen eye on the London museums.

The rat and the rabbit bronzes from the old summer palace may one day find their way back to China. In the meantime I hope they are well looked after by loving curators. I believe most feel their responsibility regardless of ownership these days.

Finally I couldn’t comment here without mentioning the cultural tragedy of our times – the deliberate destruction in 2001 of the Banyam Buddhas in Afghanistan. Also on the Silk Road as the Dunhuang site I visited in December these were the tallest free standing Buddha statues in the world, an international UNESCO site listed as such for the interest and admiration of all mankind. After hundreds of years in a moment they were gone.

Thanks for posting J. As you can see you hit a nerve.