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	<title>Comments on: Qing Dynasty for sale&#8230;buyers wanted.</title>
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	<link>http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/25/qing-dynasty-for-salebuyers-wanted/</link>
	<description>A Qing historian reads the newspaper...</description>
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		<title>By: Windswing</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/25/qing-dynasty-for-salebuyers-wanted/comment-page-1/#comment-10339</link>
		<dc:creator>Windswing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=744#comment-10339</guid>
		<description>To X@Y,

Rightly or wrongly, I think you are wasting your money on things like the National Arts Collection Fund.

Therefore, I am taking your money in my possession, by force if necessary,  so that we could have this wealth better preserved. 

For your info, I&#039;m auctioning the nicely kept  bills and coins soon, just in case you want your money back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To X@Y,</p>
<p>Rightly or wrongly, I think you are wasting your money on things like the National Arts Collection Fund.</p>
<p>Therefore, I am taking your money in my possession, by force if necessary,  so that we could have this wealth better preserved. </p>
<p>For your info, I&#8217;m auctioning the nicely kept  bills and coins soon, just in case you want your money back.</p>
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		<title>By: x@y</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/25/qing-dynasty-for-salebuyers-wanted/comment-page-1/#comment-10206</link>
		<dc:creator>x@y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=744#comment-10206</guid>
		<description>btw, I have been quite rightly pulled up:

I’m a little unfair as Elgin bought those marbles -  and surely from a Greek. &quot;Pillage&quot; is a little harsh. 

Interestingly the Dunhuang art and buddhas were bought too mostly from one particular monk who spent the proceeds damaging much of what remained in the name of restoration. The Brits bought the cream followed by the French and others and then finally the Americans got in on what was left. To make matters worse much of the American haul sunk while being shipped back to the US. 

So a typical archeological fumble as I now understand it.

Happy new year!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>btw, I have been quite rightly pulled up:</p>
<p>I’m a little unfair as Elgin bought those marbles &#8211;  and surely from a Greek. &#8220;Pillage&#8221; is a little harsh. </p>
<p>Interestingly the Dunhuang art and buddhas were bought too mostly from one particular monk who spent the proceeds damaging much of what remained in the name of restoration. The Brits bought the cream followed by the French and others and then finally the Americans got in on what was left. To make matters worse much of the American haul sunk while being shipped back to the US. </p>
<p>So a typical archeological fumble as I now understand it.</p>
<p>Happy new year!</p>
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		<title>By: China Journal : Best of the China Blogs: January 26</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/25/qing-dynasty-for-salebuyers-wanted/comment-page-1/#comment-10197</link>
		<dc:creator>China Journal : Best of the China Blogs: January 26</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=744#comment-10197</guid>
		<description>[...] The Opium Wars continue: Two Beijing-based lawyers fight the sale of two sculptures looted from the Summer Palace by British and French troops in 1860. [Jottings [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Opium Wars continue: Two Beijing-based lawyers fight the sale of two sculptures looted from the Summer Palace by British and French troops in 1860. [Jottings [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/25/qing-dynasty-for-salebuyers-wanted/comment-page-1/#comment-10173</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=744#comment-10173</guid>
		<description>Oh, this could be a lot of fun if it goes to trial!  To shame the British, they could read from &quot;Chinese&quot; Gordon&#039;s account of the sack.  To appeal to the French, they could quote from Victor Hugo&#039;s letter.

Opinions on this tend to divide sharply depending on whether your country was among the looters or the looted.  You don&#039;t even have to be a developing country to fall on the other side of the argument -- the Italians and Greeks being the prime examples.

Certainly any museum that helped to preserve an artifact should get some kind of continuing benefit, like sharing in the proceeds of any touring exhibitions.  But it&#039;s not as though the country of origin had lost all rights in the artifact just because they wouldn&#039;t have treated it with respect in the interim.  What matters is how it would be treated TODAY.

It&#039;s not unlike the argument against colonialism: Perhaps there would have been a bloody religious war if we hadn&#039;t stepped in and taken over the country.  Does that mean that they don&#039;t get to achieve self-government at some point in the future when they&#039;re better-equipped?  More to the point, when we grant independence to the colony, are we then entitled to take all the artifacts with us, because they would&#039;ve gotten destroyed in the religious war that we prevented?  Possession is nine-tenths ownership, but you can see how the argument falls on the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, this could be a lot of fun if it goes to trial!  To shame the British, they could read from &#8220;Chinese&#8221; Gordon&#8217;s account of the sack.  To appeal to the French, they could quote from Victor Hugo&#8217;s letter.</p>
<p>Opinions on this tend to divide sharply depending on whether your country was among the looters or the looted.  You don&#8217;t even have to be a developing country to fall on the other side of the argument &#8212; the Italians and Greeks being the prime examples.</p>
<p>Certainly any museum that helped to preserve an artifact should get some kind of continuing benefit, like sharing in the proceeds of any touring exhibitions.  But it&#8217;s not as though the country of origin had lost all rights in the artifact just because they wouldn&#8217;t have treated it with respect in the interim.  What matters is how it would be treated TODAY.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not unlike the argument against colonialism: Perhaps there would have been a bloody religious war if we hadn&#8217;t stepped in and taken over the country.  Does that mean that they don&#8217;t get to achieve self-government at some point in the future when they&#8217;re better-equipped?  More to the point, when we grant independence to the colony, are we then entitled to take all the artifacts with us, because they would&#8217;ve gotten destroyed in the religious war that we prevented?  Possession is nine-tenths ownership, but you can see how the argument falls on the other side.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Tiffert</title>
		<link>http://granitestudio.org/2009/01/25/qing-dynasty-for-salebuyers-wanted/comment-page-1/#comment-10172</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Tiffert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 16:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://granitestudio.org/?p=744#comment-10172</guid>
		<description>This article is a bit essentializing, but definitely on to something:

http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/articles.php?searchterm=014_chineseAttitude.inc&amp;issue=014</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is a bit essentializing, but definitely on to something:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/articles.php?searchterm=014_chineseAttitude.inc&#038;issue=014" rel="nofollow">http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/articles.php?searchterm=014_chineseAttitude.inc&#038;issue=014</a></p>
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