I’m not sure even where to begin with this…
The copy alone is simply priceless:
“Stubborn and tenacious as a bulldog, fearless and unafraid, doggedly patient, this son of a village merchant is the strongest man China has produced for generations. In 1928, he set out to unify China. He was too successful. Japan attacked. Despite overwhelming odds, despite defeat after defeat, Chiang still fights on, confident in ultimate victory. This great man, a Christian by conviction, is indeed a man of stamina, the heart and soul of the Chinese resistance.”*
Yeesh. Who knew Henry Luce wrote trouser ads in his spare time?
As my friend and fellow historian Glenn (from whom I shamelessly grabbed this picture and so I tip my electronic hat in his direction) said on Facebook: “Before Bob Dole, there was…”
While on the subject of CKS for the moment, I thought I’d also share a little nugget I found while re-reading a speech Chiang gave soon after the Japanese surrender in 1945. Addressing a high-level meeting of the KMT, Chiang ponders what a post-war China would look like, and in this particular section discusses the status of former Qing territories such as Outer Mongolia and Tibet:
“I shall first take up the nationality questions in Outer Mongolia and Tibet. Outer Mongolia and Tibet both have a long history. The ethnic groups living in those areas have always lived by themselves and are totally different from other ethnic groups inhabiting the border provinces which mix freely with other groups…As regards the political status of Tibet, the Sixth National KMT Congress decided to grant it a very high degree of autonomy, to aid its political advancement, and to improve the living conditions of the Tibetans. I solemnly declare that if the Tibetans express a wish for self-government, our government would, in conformity with our sincere tradition, accord it a very high degree of autonomy.”
So well as it goes, Chiang’s position is not too different from the stance taken later by the PRC. But then Chiang adds a new twist:
“If in the future they [the Tibetans] fulfill the economic requirement for independence, the national government will, as in the case of Outer Mongolia, help them to gain that status.”
Interesting. He’s probably blowing smoke, because the “economic requirement” is left unspecified, but he does leave the door open to the same independent status “granted” Mongolia. However, he also adds an important caveat:
“But Tibet must give proof that it can consolidate its independent position and protect its continuity so as not to become another Korea.”
Given British shenanigans on the plateau in the first half of the 20th century, this was probably more than just Chiang giving vent to his paranoia.
Now, none of Chiang’s speech PROVES anything relating to the current political status of Tibet and the Tibetan people. He’s also on the record in other places including both Tibet and Mongolia into a grandiose vision of “The Republic of China,” Chiang’s delusions of grandeur being the stuff of legends, but I do think it suggests, and stop me if you’ve heard this one before, that the historical record on Tibet is far from black/white and that there were and are a number of valid perspectives on the subject. That Chiang believed Tibet was a part of China is pretty clear, but the idea he was willing to allow for the possibility of self-determination in the future…that’s kind of interesting, especially as a few commenters on earlier threads had expressed in interest in pre-/post-1949 continuities regarding the status of the region.
———————
*”Generalissimo Jiang on National Identity” in Chinese Civilization: A Sourcebook, Patricia Ebrey, ed. (New York: The Free Press, 1993), pp. 405.
Chiang Kai-shek: Man of STAMINA! (Move over Bob Dole): I’m not sure even where to begin with this…
.. http://tinyurl.com/cjf7kl
Chiang Kai-shek and Stamina (Trousers), via @GraniteStudio, http://tinyurl.com/cjf7kl
Great find in the context of the current debate/shouting match raging on the issue.
“Chiang’s position is not too different from the stance taken later by the PRC”
Well, I’m not sure we would hear this acknowledgment form the present incumbent:
…have always lived by themselves and are totally different from other ethnic groups inhabiting the border provinces
The occupants of Zhongnanhai do of course use the word autonomy quite a lot, but anyone who believes that Tibetans get to practice it under the CCP is more deluded than a mary jane infused member of the Shangrila Club.
This kind of adulation Henry Luce had for Chiang has transplanted to the modern day Western journalists for the Dalai Lama. So sad to see how little journalism has progressed.
[...] Full posts here and here. [...]
Don’t think Henry Luce was behind this one. The source of the ad is an Australian travel magazine (“Walkabout”). The gushing praise should be understood in the context of WW2. The ad appeared in 1944.
So Chiang didn’t think that Tibet is an inalienable part of China, just like Mongolia!! And Jiang didn’t think eastern Manchuria an inalienable part of China, either. He gave it as a present to Russia.
When will they give away Guangxi to Vietnam, and Xinjiang to Russia ? May be Yunnan to Burma ?
Well, according to this stamp issued by the ROC in 1926 commemorating the 150th anniversary of the founding of the United States, Tibet was certainly considered part of the Republic of China.
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=americanstamp.jpg
Stillwell called him the “Peanut” and believed he could straddle both sides of an issue and never make a decisive move in either direction.
The Mongolian peoples of Outer Mongolia should be happy they were emancipated from their serfdom by the Russians. It must be painful to see their brothers in inner Mongolia still under the yoke of communists.
Like wise for the Uzbeks, Kirghz, Kazakhs, Turks. Too bad for the Weiwu’erzu and the Zangzu. They can’t even call themselves Uighurs or Tibetans.
g,
Yeah…the Henry Luce thing was what, in some circles, they might call a “joke.”
Pfeffer,
Once again in your haste, you missed the salient point of the post…I have no doubt that Jiang felt that way in 1926 or even 1945 when he was giving the speech, in fact if you look at the post there’s a big underlined section that says “That Chiang believed Tibet was part of China is pretty clear.” The fact that you missed that and just posted a comment is a little puzzling.
As I say to my students sometimes, “I could tell you what the main argument of the piece is, but I’d rather have you read it again and suss it out on your own.”
Jeremiah,
I WAS NOT disputing anything you said, actually. My comment was rather providing additional, or supplemental reinforcing Chiang’s position, which I understand was “Tibet was part of the ROC”.
Bill,
Chiang gave eastern Manchuria to Russia? When? If you meant today’s Russian maritime provinces, it had nothing to do with Chiang. It was Qing China who lost it to the Russians.
And why giving Xinjiang to Russia? Russia never had Xinjiang, just like Vietnam never had Guangxi, Burma never had Yunnan.
Before you suggest carving up China and giving away its territories, I suggest that you give America back to the Native Americans.
Lindel,
Outer Mongolians were not “under the yoke of communists”? Hell, the Russians even got rid of the Mongolian script and replaced it with Cyrillic alphabets in Outer Mongolia. Yeah, I am sure the Inner Mongolians were and are still envious of the Outer Mongolians, who preserved “so much” Mongolian culture.
What’s the official language in Inner Mongolia? Are government/official documents in Chinese only or do they also include Mongolian script? What language is taught in the schools? Do they use Mongolian throughout the educational process? Is that an option? Are there Mongolian-language universities in Inner Mongolia? How many Mongolian-language channels broadcast from Inner Mongolia?
I actually have no idea, I’m just curious.
Jeremiah,
Only IF you believe the CCP:
http://www.moe.gov.cn/edoas/website18/13/info5313.htm
http://mongoliayouth.5d6d.com/thread-2884-1-1.html
I’ll flag up this bit again, just for Pffefer:
“…have always lived by themselves and are totally different from other ethnic groups inhabiting the border provinces”
The point about script and language (and the inseparable nature of those things to a people’s culture) is important. It’s one of the most obvious ways in which Tibetans are distinct from Han and other ethnicities within China. Chiang clearly recognised that fact in a way that the current leaders refuse to acknowledge.
Nobody is trying to “carve up China”. All too often the real Tibetan issues – those of a humanitarian and cultural nature – get lost (quite deliberately, I feel) in a false emphasis on the question of independence.
An independent Tibetan state is not a realistic option, no matter what evidence history might offer. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to question the purging, diluting, and manipulating of an entire people until they bend to the will of an outside culture. And that’s what the Han have forced upon the people of the plateau.
The Hessler article linked to over at Peking Duck suggests that Hu Yaobang saw for himself the way Tibetans were being treated in their own homeland, and wanted to change it. Sadly, he never got the opportunity to implement his suggestions and the hardliners moved in, and they failed to see what was clear to both Hu Yaobang and CKS – that Tibetans are “totally different.”
The Tibetan Chinese are “totally different” from Han Chinese and other ethnicities within China? Depending on what “totally” means. Yeah they are different, that’s why they are a separate ethnic group. The current Chinese leadership doesn’t think so? Says who?
So what the Tibetans are different? Does being “different” warrant a separate state? Perhaps, then every ethnic group in China and elsewhere should have their own country, I guess.
Exactly how has the Tibetan culture been purged and diluted? The same way Han Chinese culture has been diluted I think. Actually, speaking of cultures being diluted, the west is the No.1 culprit. Sadly, much of the world has been westernized at the expense of local cultures.
By the way Jeremiah, care to provide the original text from Chiang in Chinese? I fear certain things might have been unintentionally twisted or lost in translation.
I wrote:
“All too often the real Tibetan issues – those of a humanitarian and cultural nature – get lost (quite deliberately, I feel) in a false emphasis on the question of independence.”
Pffefer responded:
“So what the Tibetans are different? Does being “different” warrant a separate state? Perhaps, then every ethnic group in China and elsewhere should have their own country, I guess.”
As I was saying…
[...] Source: Granite Studio [...]
yes the outer mongolians have their own country, they have elections, and can talk about genghis khan and try to remember their clan names and continue to search for the great khans spirit banner.
all these freedoms are denied to their brothers in inner mongolia.
The PRC has given some lip service to supporting the minority peoples to attempt to preserve some of their language.
the MOE notes that the population of inner mongolia is now 80% Han and 16% mongolians. So now that the demographics are at an acceptable proportion the MOE now provides some support to allow the mongolians in inner mongolian to attempt to preserve their language by allowing some publications and some teaching of mongolian
the official language in inner mongolia is mandarin. the primary language in inner mongolian schools is mandarin chinese.
I would be willing to bet that more time and budget in inner mongolia is allocated to english language instruction than mongolian language.
The peoples of central asian who were emancipated by the russians and suffered under russian communism are no longer being ruled by communists.
they have their own countries now.
the central asian peoples emanciapted by the Han communists are still being ruled by
Han communists.
they do not have their own countries any more.
they are being systematically settled by Han in order to change the demographics to produce 80% Han to 16% ethnic minority ratios.
despite all they suffered under the russians it appears today that the russians were in fact less racist to the peoples of central asian then their counterparts in communist china.
it is true they did leave a legacy of the russian language and their cyrillic script in their part of central asia, but at least today they have returned governance back to the ethnic peoples themselves to manage their own nations.
for example the demographics of Kazahkstan is:
53.4% Kazakh
29.9% Russian
3.7% Ukrainian
2.5% Uzbek
2.4% German
1.7% Tatar
compare that to the demographics of inner mongolia
80% Han
16% Mongolian
4% Other
The Han people should examine their own racism towards the different ethnic groups in the PRC.
instead of settling Tibet, Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia to produce 80% Han majorities to pacify those people out of existance why don’t you Han address the problems with your country in the places you are living now?
Instead of spreading your crappy government to the provinces why don’t you fix your crappy government where you are and try to be less racist and let the tibetans, uighurs, and mongols have their own happiness?
I thought this posting was about how adulation manifests in risible ways? It’s Monty Python time rather than hacking about on the politics. Is there a matching underwear ad somewhere? After all stamina requires support— in all the right places.
Give me a break, Lindel. Since Inner Mongolia is part of the PRC, how could you ban Han and other non-Mongolian Chinese from settling down there?
Instead of spouting more self-righteous BS, look at yourself in the mirror, give America back to the Native Americans first.
I actually think negotiations should begin regarding full sovereignty and membership in international organizations for Native American groups who wish to have such an arrangement, but hey…that’s just me. It’s an intriguing idea to be sure.
That said, Pfeffer, tu quoque is a logical fallacy, and (apologies to Mark Jackson) you’re better than that.
It is the Republic of Mongolia. Referring to the Republic as “Outer Mongolia” is an example of old outdated imperialist thinking and has a tinge of racism.
The Han people should undertake a modernization program to update their thinking regarding the nations of Central Asia. A lot has changed in the region, especially since many of these natons have regained sovereignty in the 1990′s after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
Mongolia has been an independent republic since 1911. They actually have a functioning effective parlimentary government.
Continuing to view neighbors and other ethnic groups through a 19th century or even older lens does not lend to behaving like the modern nation that the PRC claims to be.
It would be helpful if the PRC would focus more attention to the corruption, widening socio-economic and environment problems they have created and continue to create within their central and eastern provinces.
We here in the US often hold a mirror to ourselves and address our failings and bigotries.
It is long overdue for the Han to do the same.
Like you I guess we could try to shift the blame to England for the slave trade and blame the several variations of European Wars for the plight of the Indians. But that does not do anything for people or address the issue.
I never used the word “ban”. I merely confronted you with the racial demographics of Kazahkstan and the province of Nei Menggu in order to give you some inkling of why Tibetans, Mongols, Kazahksm, Uzbeks, Kirghz, Uighurs might not like you so much and why they were better off when they were subjugated by Russians.
I guess the Han find it easier to relocate to some one else’s pastoral paradise to bring the gift of crappy government, economic disparity and environmental polution than to face those problems in their own homelands.
Instead of an agent of tyranny be a defender of the weak.
Jeremiah,
Maybe I am worse than you think. I just think sometimes those self-righteous (and occasionally hypocritical) foreigners need to give us a break. Enough “do as I say not as I do” thingy. It does not work.
At that time Chiang had control over roughly half of the “official” ROC territory even one includes Xinjiang, of which the warlord barely started siding with him less than 10 years ago and could just easily switch to Soviet Union as easily. Mongolia was officially gone — though ROC backpedaled on that. Manchuria was under the control of Soviet Union. He had spent the last 2+ decades trying to put all the broken pieces together, slowly and carefully.
The grand standing on Tibet, according to his own diary, was to encourage Tibetans to fight the British since at least ROC gave them hope of a full independence. He certainly didn’t foresee the sea-changing events including him being forced out of mainland and Britain being forced out of India. To him the Great Game at the outter China will continue with the old players minus Japan, but plus a much larger role in the US. If in 1945 he had had a deal from the above and he could’ve kept the size of current PRC, he would’ve taken it in a heartbeat. If he had to let go one piece, he would take Manchuria over Xinjiang, and Xinjiang over Tibet, in that order.
Lindel, a bit knowledge could be useful and you would likely take that big-ass racial chip off your shoulder. People have been moving from places to places long before some half-witted racial equality crusaders were born.
Even in mid-Ming, there were significant number of Han settlers in the area later called Inner Mongolia (started in Qing). As early as in the early 1800s, Hans outnumbered Mongolians in Inner Mongolia. And there were already 80% Hans in Inner Mongolia before the first Sino-Japanese War.
at the end –> “before the _second_ Sino-Japanese war.”