Nine Nations or Nine Macroregions: Patrick Chovanec responds

Yesterday’s post comparing the maps of Patrick Chovanec and William Skinner has garnered many responses, not the least of which from Patrick Chovanec himself.   We have been exchanging emails this morning, and a brief summary of our discussion  can be found below. —————————— Dear Jeremiah, It was great to talk with you earlier today concerning the points you raise about my article “The Nine Nations of China.” Readers of your blog may be interested in a post I made on my own blog “Intellectual Antecedents” that addresses some of these issues.  The “Nine Nations” framework is not based upon Skinner’s work, it is the result of many years of independent research and analysis.  The substance — including the regional descriptions — are my own and original.  But you are absolutely right to call attention to the fact that there have been many preceding scholars – Chinese and Western — who have studied the question of China’s regional make-up, and that my own conclusions in some ways match and validate their own.  I actually noted this in my original submission to The Atlantic, but the final product was cut to about half its original size, and it was all I could do to insist that

Nine nations or nine macroregions?

There’s a map, first posted by the Atlantic Monthly this week, that’s been making the rounds.  This interactive map, credited to Beijing-based academic Patrick Chovanec, explores China’s diversity by dividing the PRC into discrete “nations.”  It’s an interesting project, especially because it shows how different regions have their own internal socioeconomic logic and that “China” as presently constructed, is very much just that…a construct of multiple cultural, linguistic, economic, and ethnic zones.

In fact, the project is so interesting it’s been done before.

Here is Chovanec’s map:

And here is a map created by historian and anthropologist G. William Skinner:

While Skinner’s research is a bit wonkish for non-specialists, anyone who has done graduate level studies in a China-related field has come across Skinner and his macroregions at some point. In The City in Late Imperial China (1977) Skinner argued that China could be understood as a set of nine macroregions: physiographically discrete regions with a distinct core and periphery wherein, in historical China, the majority of trade consisted of goods shipped between internal markets rather than sent out to other parts of the empire.

Professor Skinner and his team would later create a

Obama in China: Tuesday morning edition

It’s November, which is one of the worst times to visit Beijing.  The other bad times include December, January, Chinese New Years, March, April, May 1st Holiday, June, July, August, the first part of September, and the October 1st holiday.

November is cold, it is gray and dusty, and the city folk are in dark moods as they stack cabbage and coal and prepare to hunker down for five months of winter.

But none of that matters to Barack Obama.  And we must thank the president (or so goes the rumor mill in my hutong) for inspiring the Beijing weather gnomes  over the past few weeks to cast their spell for early snow and crisp blue skies with a thin dollop of white stuff to cover the usual Beijing beige.

Yesterday, President Obama participated in a “Town Hall meeting” in Shanghai with the youth in Asia.  Now I grew up in New Hampshire so I know a thing or two about town hall meetings, but yesterday’s event (highlights here) was so tightly scripted and cautious it made the Republican National Convention look like Burning Man.

Adam Minter at Shanghai Scrap offers his thoughts, writing that President Obama’s performance resembled “an

More on Obama’s visit…

I’m up early on a Sunday morning watching college football and getting ready for a hike around the second ring road.  We actually don’t hike ON the second ring road so much as I lead my students through a maze of hutongs starting around Xinjiekou and winding our way east than south finally emerging around Jianguomen.  We were supposed to do this LAST Sunday but the numbers were a little light so we postponed it until today. I think we’ll have a better turnout today.  We’ve added a stop at the Beixinqiao Grandma’s Kitchen…and I made it mandatory for my history class.  Yes, I am evil.

In his blog for the Atlantic Monthly, James Fallows argues that the most critical topic for President Obama and Hu Jintao is tackling the problem of global China change.  While at the NGOChina blog, Shawn Shieh argues that as a former community organizer, the president knows first hands the problems of NGOs.  Professor Shieh suggests that instead of hectoring the Chinese government about human rights, President Obama should instead use presence in China to lend support to grassroots organizations and NGO development in the PRC.

In the NYT, David Barboza offers the obligatory look

James Lilley, ambassador to China 1989-1991, dies

James Lilley, who was US ambassador to China during the 1989 Tiananmen crackdown, has passed away.  He was 81. Born in Qingdao and a longtime China hand, both in the CIA and as a diplomat, Ambassador Lilley defined old school.  His book China Hands: Nine Decades of Adventure, Espionage, and Diplomacy in Asia is part memoir and part diplomatic history as he weaves his own remembrances through some of the most turbulent times in Sino-US relations.  (And if that’s not enough, the story of his adventures with Fang Lizhi in the aftermath of June 4 is priceless in and of itself.)

Update November 15: NYT obituary can be found here.

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